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"She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:36 am
by Richard York
I'm enjoying beginning to play through this, in the latest NSP Folio.
The notes say it's the earliest published version of what became "The East Neuk of Fife" (So is this another euphemism I didn't know, Julia ?).
I expect the answer is staring me in the face, it often is, but when was this earliest version published, please?
And are all the variations given here published in said original? - obviously if so, the tune predates that publication, to have already accrued variations.

Thanks,
Richard.

Re: "She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:45 pm
by John Gibbons
Oswald published and republished The Caledonian Pocket Companion in 12 volumes and various editions from around 1750.
Most of the tunes in this huge collection are 'traditional' or newly composed tunes, many with variations.
Some are good, but some variations were written to fill up the page, you feel. This is one of the good ones.
Perhaps half the tunes are by Oswald himself, others were already current.
Only about a dozen were explicitly claimed as his.
This is the first known appearance of The East Neuk of Fife -
Bremner's title for his slightly later 12 strain version.
Oswald was from Crail, in the East Neuk,
so that seemlier title is pretty well Bremner's attribution of the tune to Oswald.

While I'm talking about Oswald tunes in the 4th folio, Nora Criona isn't one - I found it in O'Neill's Dance Music of Ireland.
There's a g in the 2nd strain, 2nd bar, should I'm sure be a G, by the way - my abc'ing isn't what it should be.

John

Re: "She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:14 am
by Julia Say
Thanks, John. I'll check out the typo - it isn't the only one in the book.

Richard - I just love watching peoples' reactions when faced with these titles!

Julia

Re: "She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:06 pm
by Matt Seattle
Julia Say wrote:Thanks, John. I'll check out the typo - it isn't the only one in the book.


I noticed one in Johnny Cock, as well as the mistaken explanation about late mediƦval armour (I know the source of that one). The Beaver is a beaver fur hat, I think - Cock Up Your Beaver = 'set your hat at a jaunty angle' as far as I can tell. The title has often been taken as 'explicit' which I do not believe is the case, whereas The Peacock Follows The Hen, a very obvious metaphor, has somehow escaped such an interpretation...!

Anyway, well done Julia and contributors for putting the folio together, and regarding Oswald, I highly recommend the 2 x CDR version of Caledonian Pocket Companion with Commentary by Purser, not faultless by any means but fairly thorough in its attributions and concordances, giving the overall impression that Oswald certainly contributed original tunes and many variations, but the majority of the tunes were not his.

Re: "She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:36 pm
by John Gibbons
Matt,

Many thanks for this - I knew some were Oswald's own, some were already old, but was unsure of the split.
I must invest in the Purser edition - not least because the BL copy I have a copy of is incomplete.
But 'She Griped at ye Greatest on't' is one of the best NSPable ones in there -
I love his 'Roseland Castle' with the little jig following, as well.

John

Re: "She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:57 pm
by Richard York
Thanks for these various helpful replies.
And a new Euphemism too :)

Er, is East Neuk of Fife also a euphemism now, then?
I mean, if "toilet " turns to "lavatory" meaning the same thing, and ends up as "bathroom" as a sort of second generation euphemism... ah I get it, is this where "nookie" comes from, and should it really be "East Nookie"??

More to my original point, it is a very nice set, and all the better for knowing when it comes from with it.
Best wishes,
Richard.

Re: "She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:38 pm
by Barry Say
Sorry, if anyone wishes to infer dubious interpretation of neuk here, they are probably barking up the wrong tree.

For a map, try:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8& ... 1e88d7347a
and expand the view - lots!!


For a definition try:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Neuk

To my mind, the East Neuk of Fife would seem to be a mariners term for the seaward limit of the north shore of the Firth of Forth. I fear it is a rather prosaic term with buggerall connertations.

Barry

Re: "She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:47 pm
by John Gibbons
For where it is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Neuk_of_Fife.

Musically, of course, the East Neuk is the destination of Rob the Ranter in ''Maggie Lauder''.
He met Maggie while ''gaun to Fife'', and Maggie says to ask for her
''Gin ye should come to Anster fair'' - Anstruther is in the heart of the district.

There are 2 good and distinct versions of this tune, ''Maggie Lauder'' and ''Miss Lauder''
in Oswald.

John

Re: "She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:01 pm
by John Gibbons
Another musical connection from the East Neuk - Balcarres is the original home of the Balcarres Lute Book.
It is kept in the National Library of Scotland now, but still belongs to the Lindsays of Balcarres.

Re: "She Griped at ye Greatest on't" query

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:10 pm
by John Gibbons
Barry Say wrote: I fear (East Neuk of Fife) is a rather prosaic term with buggerall connertations.


But isn't that why Bremner was able to use it as a euphemistic way of referring to "She Griped at ye Greatest on't"??
An alternative filthy title would not have done the job. Not so much bowdlerised as bremnerised.
Next time someone refers to the East Neuk, try very hard not to visualise "She Griped at ye Greatest on't".....